Essen und Trinken im 2. OG des Gebäude 051
Unten nochmal Hannahs Mail vom 1. Dezember 2009, in der ich auf die Seite hier verweise.
Eure Kommentare / Vorschläge in diesem Abschnitt bitte, letzter Beitrag zuoberst
Unit cost models are soooo theory. Probably denoted in unary notation to artificially decrease the computational complexity by the exponential padding of the input.
Translation: I agree to Hannah's solution. Good proposal!
Christian 2022-12-09 19:53:13
Thanks to Hannah for her offer which is very generous indeed!
However I think it is enough effort organizing this project - I do not think that Hannah should pay for food and drinks (neither as a whole nor in part).
Although I did not show up in the kitchen so far, I would like to participate in the discussion: I would prefer the tally sheet solution with standard prices for items which are often available and some blank fields for prices of other things based on an estimation by the users.
The prices should also include an overhead for shopping etc. - they still remain much cheaper than in a restaurant, e.g., so I think everybody will be happy with this service.
Christoph 2022-12-09 19:53:13
After thinking a little more about the options i definitely think that a 'pay after' option will not work. I also know that there are people who don't eat much food and are not willing to pay 10€/month for such a service. So you cannot force them to do so. If there will be a food flat rate, it has to be a opt-in flat-rate. But i assume that on this basis you will not get your money back. I would propose to make an (anonymous) questionnaire, that all the people concerned should answer:
- Did you eat food in the last two month in the kitchen? (To get the number of people causing the costs for further calculations)
- If yes, would you be willing to pay (for the food)
- a monthly fee (flat-rate-model),
- a monthly fee (flat-rate-model),
- Did you get drinks in the last two months? (Again to get the number of people)
- and for the drinks using a tally sheet
- all drinks the same price (1€/piece)
- different price for different drinks (i.e. coke, 75ct, bionade 1€, ...)
Also even having the 'coolness' of an open door policy for the kitchen in mind i think a lot of stuff gets apart by non-staff-members. So i'd say we should close the door (at least if the questionnaire does not answer the question how 800€ were consumed).
-- ChristophHermann 2009-12-02 10:10:33
Hello 2. floor, I ate 5-7 cookies per week and I could honestly just as well live without them, because I work only half a day and eat at home. And I bring my own tea. So I am certainly ready to pay for the cookies I had and their bring service, but not for more. (Everey party needs a party pooper...) So I think it´s the tally sheet.
First, thanks to Hannah for providing this service. Of course nobody should pay from his private money for such a service. On the other hand, nobody should pay for a service never ordered. Our group consists at the moment of eight persons in this building. However, two are not on the same floor. We have external group members. Some are on strict diet because of overweight or religious restrictions (whatever is worse). So, I vote for the tally sheet (even for cookies, apples and toothsticks). I do not think that a GEZ-like payment scheme with a social bias against higher ranks would do.
This comment is from some anonymous member of CONE (definitely not a Professor. Trust me.)
Christian 2009-12-02 09:00:00
Here is a variation of my proposal A, let's call it proposal D. The drinks all cost about the same, and the price is somewhat below 1 Euro, ranging from about 70 cent for a coke to about 90 cents for a Bionade. We could round this up to 1 Euro for every drink. That makes the tally sheet (Strichliste) much simpler, is still more than three times cheaper than in a pub / restaurant (standard price there is 3 Euro for a 0.4 l soft drink), and gives us some leeway for the food. For the food, the bosses pay a little more, as a service to their group, and the rest pays ten euros flat per month, which is really not much. Then we see how it goes.
The idea of 1 Euro per drink could also be combined with proposal C, that would compensate for the occasional cookie / grape / coffee in between and we wouldn't have to bother with marking those on the sheet.
Hannah 2022-12-09 19:53:13
Regarding A: Lets assume one pays 20 Euro. AD has 9 members. ABS has at least 6 members on our floor. CONE has at least 7 members on our floor. Lets make it round and assume 20 people. 20*20 would make 400€ - only half the cost!
Regarding B: Seems a similar solution like the 'pay after' concept of the Friedrichsbau (watching movies and paying what one thinks is appropriate). Around 3 Euros would be break-even and is not reached in Freiburg. Does that apply for all people here? One could of course hope, that this is not transferable to the members of our floor. I don't drink coffee but i think this concept (every coffee drinker brings a package of coffee beans every now and then) did not work in our kitchen. Same for milk and sugar. (rumors)
Regarding C: Sounds like one of the best solutions from a financial perspective *if and only if* people are honest and the value of the food is known to them.
Now of course i think a lot of people just liked the "free stuff" and will fall back to their old schemata when its not free any more. Of course from a consumers perspective i would like option A with 10 euros most, and would start thinking about the value of the food when it costs 20€ (ok i already did...) Of course 20€ is more than fair (in my opinion) considering a 30day month, 60ct per Drink and a drink a day. Would leave 2€ for cookies
-- ChristophHermann 2009-12-01 23:21:12
hm, i just realized i overlooked the separation between drinks and food. Different calculation: Package of bread (~10 slices) 2€, package of cheese 1.99€, salami 99ct (discounter prices)- makes one week of food and 5€. Still fits the 20€. So if drinks is ~400€, 20 paying people (20€) you'd reach the needed 800€.
-- ChristophHermann 2009-12-01 23:38:29
First I would say that all options are very generous. Since it is also offered, I would prefer option A - it's the simplest. But what about having the MPII Kaffekasse system of payment? If somebody takes something the same somebody also puts a mark on the sheet of paper that matches the price of the something.
A very interesting is the phenomena with our coffee machine: as long as there were coffee beans in the machine, everybody was using the machine to get coffee. As soon as the coffee beans run out, everybody stopped drinking coffee and nobody dared to buy some more (even though I see nervous people in the kitchen sometimes, frustrated that there are no more coffee beans but still not buying some). This is outrageous.
Hier Hannahs Mail
it's now two months that we have the food and drinks in our kitchen.
So far it was all for free. The cost was around 800 Euro / month, which I paid from my private pocket. I do earn a decent salary, but that is a bit too much for me to maintain further. Please note that there is no way to pay food and drinks from university money, the laws simply do not allow it.
So the question is: how do we continue?
For the drinks (which amount to about half of the cost, a bit less) I would opt for a tally sheet / Strichliste. That's easy: when you take a drink you just mark the corresponding amount on a sheet, and in regular intervals someone collects the money.
For the food, this is not so obvious. For example, I don't think we should start pricing individual cookies or grapes or bread slices. Here are some options, which came to my mind (feel free to suggest more). Note that there are also overhead costs for the shopping itself, that is, the person who does that (used to be Regina Pietsch, now it's Elisabeth) gets paid by the hour. I am willing to take over these costs.
A. Everybody on the floor pays some fixed amount of money (somewhere between 10 and 20 Euro per month). I pay the rest.
B. Everybody decides by him or herself by the end of the month how much to give. I pay the rest.
C. We have a rough tally sheet also for the food. Say with a unit of 1 Euro. If you consume any larger amounts you just mark as much as you feel is appropriate for what you consumed. I pay the rest.
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